The debate over gay marriage, highlighted by President Obama’s endorsement this week, makes me sad. Extremists on both sides of the argument are either dancing for joy or arming for battle. Politicians, rather than focusing on the economy, foreign relations or American security, are using gay marriage to invigorate their base and to raise campaign funds. Pastors, rather than encouraging people to love God with all their heart, mind and strength and to love their neighbor as themselves, are self-righteously pontificating on things they know very little about. It is amazing that an issue that impacts a small percentage of the population has become such an important dividing line in American culture. (According to an article in the Huffington Post, Gary Gates, demographer-in-residence at the Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy at UCLA, estimates that 1.7% of US adults self-identify as gay or lesbian.)
I have been wrestling with the biblical principles surrounding gay marriage. Three major tenets guide my understanding:
- The chief end of man is to glorify God
The purpose of life is not individual happiness or fulfillment; life is about living in a way that reflects God’s glory. In dealing with contentious issues I have to ask, “How does my speech and attitude reflect the glory of God? Is my goal to find and spread individual happiness or to reflect Kingdom principles?” Wrestling with these questions seldom leads to good sound bites, increased fund-raising or pithy sermons; but these are the questions we have to grapple with on a daily basis. - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God
Are gays and lesbians sinners? Of course they are. As are senators and presidents, Democrats and Republicans, as well as Cub fans and Cardinal fans.(Cubs fans are also not very smart, but that’s another post.) Sin is anything that misses the center of God’s will, and we all miss on a daily basis.It is easy to become self-righteous in an issue as emotional as gay marriage, but the Apostle Paul says there is no one righteous, not even one. - God’s description of marriage is between a man and a woman
The center of God’s will, according to both the Old and New Testaments, is a committed, lifelong relationship between one man and one woman. We have to remember the Bible is an accurate record of real people, so there are polygamists, adulterers, rapists, people who sleep with their siblings, people who sleep with their step-mothers (yuck!) mentioned throughout the Bible. But the only relationship that always gets God’s gold seal of approval is a monogamous relationship between a man and a woman. That is the center of God’s will.
So how do we bring this all together? I think the most important thing we can do is to focus more on what we are for rather than on what we are against. I am for a healthy marriage between a man and a woman who are both committed to bringing glory to God by serving each other. As we move further and further from that target we move further and further from the center of God’s will. To me here are the top five enemies of God’s ideal marriage relationship:
- Selfishness
- Internet porn
- Inappropriate relationship with another man or woman
- Sex outside of marriage
- Cohabiting before marriage
I’m sorry, but gay marriage (which impacts 1.7% of the population) doesn’t make the top 5, top 10 or even top 100 list.
So here is how I feel about gay marriage:
- Do I think gay marriage is God’s perfect will?
No - Is gay marriage a sin?
Anything outside of God’s perfect will is sin, so yes - Do I think gay marriage should be legal in the US?
I don’t really care. Pornography is legal. Adultery is legal. Pre-marital sex is legal. Focusing on my own needs rather than the needs of my spouse is legal. Legislation will not improve marriage and legislation will not destroy marriage - Would I marry a gay couple?
No.
I believe the role of a pastor in performing a marriage is to affirm God’s blessing on a relationship. That is why I normally won’t marry a couple who is living together, a couple who I believe is unequally yoked (a Christian marrying a non-Christian), or a couple who is not entering into the marriage with a sober commitment to a lifelong relationship. The government can legalize gay marriage (as it has so many other relationships), but it can’t force me to perform a ceremony.
The issue of gay marriage makes me sad because it has become the centerpiece topic of conversation, the litmus test of who we’ll associate with. There are so many other things that impact so many more lives, I hope we can move past this soon and refocus on becoming the men and women God created us to be, bringing glory to God.
Very well written. Thanks!
The best article on this issue I have red so far. Thanks Geoff for writing this! I agree 100%.
The top 5 enemies to God’s ideal marriage….that really puts this topic into perspective and how insignificant it is in the big picture. And your absolutely right, politicians are using “gay marriage” to invigorate their base and to raise campaign funds.
Its frustating that this issue is dominating the media with so many other things going on that are much more important. I agree with you so much Geoff. We miss you at Seacoast!
Geoff,
I like it.
Bill
I agreed with you as soon as I saw your name.
There are people I agree with mor than you on this issue that I want to listen to less because of how th say it. I lean to the left a bit but would rather hang out with folks like you. Thanks for your witness.
Amen Jeff. I agree completely with this post.
-E
On target, bro… Thanks much!
Geoff,
This is the best response to the whole debate I’ve seen. Thanks for sharing it.
How narrowminded!
How so exactly…
You are likely right about my being narrow minded. My thinking is constrained by my understanding of the Bible (which I use as the plumb line for all of my thinking) and my understanding of the world. I don’t pretend to know with complete certainty that my view is correct or perfect, but I do have to be honest to what I believe to be true.
i am an Indian and a Hindu. Since Hinduism is a philosophy and gives me the leverage to choose my God, I have chosen Jesus Christ… He chose me actually! Ever since Obama declared his views on gay marriage, I was wondering how sincere God fearing US persons would react to this. Youe view Geoff is extremely wise I think! The important thing is to abide in the Word, according to one’s faith and show love to each other… since we have all come short of the glory of God… i think
What’s narrow-minded about this? He is sharing his opinion and openly telling us he isn’t going to force it upon anyone.
Growing up in the church, I was only allowed to love one man, Jesus, and so I gave everything to Him and His church. When I came out, that church kicked me out of their doors and suddenly ended their friendships with me, even after I committed myself to a change ministry that failed to work at all.
So I don’t really give a flip about any of it or your teachings anymore, Geoff. Great job for continuing to give the 1.7% no hope at all. I guess that’s your way of saying we have no importance. You’re getting sad about all the wrong things.
If Jesus were here today, we would be eating at my house, not yours.
Todd, I am sorry for your experience in church. If we kicked out everyone we perceived to be missing God’s perfect target church would be a lonely, lonely place. And I understand your lack of care about my teachings; if the roles were reversed I imagine I would feel somewhat the same. I did not intent to say that gays and lesbians don’t matter because they are small minority. My point is that the right for gays and lesbians to marry should not be the main focus those on either side of the issue.
Amen Todd! I was trying to muster together my thoughts and you did it beautifully. The ‘church’ treated me the same way and the change ministry didn’t work either (because it wasnt supposed to) Save a place for me at the table.
That is a breath of fresh air! Thanks for the write!
Glad to have come across your article…right on!
Although I sympathize with your perspective, I think it is not quite on target.
The top enemy of marriage is our false understanding of what marriage is all about. We now define marriage as an institution that exists primarily to meet the emotional desire of individuals rather than an institution that exists to bring children into the world and nurture them to become God loving adults who will do then do the same. Legitimizing homosexual marriage legitimizes this false understanding of marriage which is detrimental to children, society, and the church. Homosexual marriage has become a realistic option because heterosexuals have accepted a false understanding of marriage. Though I don’t think you mean it this way, to say you don’t care whether homosexual marriage is legal or not means you don’t care about the people that will be negatively impacted by it and the false understanding of marriage it advances. Legislation can impact the well being of marriages.
I’m not sure agree with your statement the marriage is “an institution that exists to bring children into the world…” While I agree that children are a blessing from God and that pro-creation is central to God’s plan, I don’t know that is the chief reason marriage exists.
Geoff,
How I defined marriage above should be tweaked and refined some but it conveys an important point that reproduction is so much a part of marriage that defining marriage apart from it distorts marriage. It is a comprehensive union which flows from the natural ability of the union to produce and raise children.
After creating mankind, male and female, the first command God gave them in Genesis 1:27 “Be fruitful and increase in number.” Reproduce. For too long I took the statement in Genesis 2:18 “The Lord God said, ‘It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.’” to mean it is not emotionally good for man to be alone. However, I have come to think that such an understanding imposes our contemporary preoccupation with our own emotional well being with what the text actually refers. It was not good for Adam to be alone because by himself he could not fulfill God’s command to be fruitful and multiply. None of the animal kingdom were suitable helpers for that. Adam immediately saw Eve could do that. The reproductive act, them becoming one flesh, marks that recognition. Adam didn’t say, “Wow! Here is someone I can talk to.”
Not being a theologian my definition was sloppy but it points to a needed revision in the typical understanding of marriage that has become dominant in and out of the church. Here is a link for some additional reading:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1722155
Jeff your point is well taken. You can eliminate all other forms of union if you can’t procreate. If the number was 100% instead of 1.7% human life would have ceased before you can say test tube baby! The Creator would not create a self defeating chain. Two given’s. 1) The Bible IS God’s word. 2) We aspire to glorify Him in all we do. Geoff, well done!
Thank you for sharing your heart and putting the real truth in writing.
Geoff,
I appreciate your thoughts on this. One thing, placing validity/importance of a topic/issue on a percentage (the 1.7%) could backfire. I haven’t done extensive research but some of the more ‘important’ topics like, poverty, homelessness, rape, abuse, adultery, etc might have a percentage that falls below 1.7%. So talking/not talking about an issue on the numbers isn’t always best by itself, the qualitative facts have to be considered as well.
Great point Ryan. The size of the minority shouldn’t determine their access to fair treatment. What I was trying to stress (not very effectively) is that because gay marriage directly impacts such a small minority of the population the ripple effect will not likely have the catastrophic impact many fear. There isn’t a tidal wave of gay couples knocking on the doors of local churches demanding a minister marry them regardless his personal beliefs. While legalizing gay marriage may indeed be a slippery slope, I don’t believe it would be as slippery as advertised.
Well said!
Your well meaning and metered thoughts on gay marriage seem to be made for a specific audience. A marriage license is not a right, or a regulation of the church – any church. What the issue involves is a state’s ability to issue and leagalize the vows, and union of two individuals. The federal government does not have the legal right to issue a license. Those are only states rights. Marriage, or the ceremony is not required in or through a church. The statistics you quoted from the Huffington Report only gives an estimated statistical number and does not include bi-sexuals or closeted men and women. I know many gay and lesbian individuals who I am happy to say, “God loves you, and so do I”. We are all sinners. We all sin every day. If God does not exclude any of us, who are we to exclude anybody?
Not wanting to care about 1.7% of any segment of society is a festering tolerance of either hate or apthy.
I don’t want to encourage hate or apathy toward any segment of society, no matter how large or small. My point is that if only 1.7% of society identify themselves as gay or lesbian the number of people who will actually enter into a gay marriage is a very small number. It doesn’t make sense to me for conservative Christians (who make up the vast majority of people who normally read my blog) to make this issue THE defining issue of our engagement with culture. The bottom line for me is that we are all sinners saved by grace regardless of laws passed by the federal government or by individual states. I am called to be true to what I understand about God’s word and to love my neighbor as myself.
good thoughts, geoff. i agree with the content as well as the heart behind it… although i’m uncomfortable with saying, ‘i don’t really care.’ to answer ‘do i think gay marriage should be legal in the US?’
for myself, i separate the questions of ethics and morality (do i agree with the behavior of gay sex?’ or even ‘would i myself marry a gay couple?’) with the question of justice (should gay people be afforded the same civil rights and liberties as heterosexual people?).
much has been written from both sides of the argument concerning gay marriage (i’ve even written some myself), but i keep coming back to the issue of justice. i see it as a different question.
what are your thoughts on this? how do you see it?
michael,
What is your definition of marriage? Once we have that we can decide whether it is justice or unjust to call a specific relationship a marriage.
thanks jeff,
as i understand the scriptures, i believe God’s intent for marriage is to mirror our relationship with the Trinity. i also believe that best happens between two people who are passionate about their relationship with God, putting the other before themselves in a life on mission for the kingdom.
the truth of the matter is that many – most, even – marriages fall short of this ideal. and there are plenty of heterosexual marriages that i look at and think, ‘they really ought not to be married,’ for a myriad of reasons.
yet i struggle to think, then, that because a marriage does not reflect God’s ideal that they in turn should not have the right to become married…to have health benefits, tax benefits, end of life benefits, et cetera.
is it possible to separate the question of morality and justice regarding gay marriage?
i asked this question on my blog (http:..www.mjkimpan.com) ::
‘why is it that folks fight so strongly to ban gay marriage, but have no problem with straight divorcees, hindus, muslims, mormons, buddhists, jews, agnostics and atheists getting married?’
awesome point
Good thoughts, thanks. Like your top 5 and the perspective it brings.
Great job Geoff! I loved it.
Thanks Geoff for this post on gay marriage. Well written and supported. It will be very helpful as I discuss with co-workers.
Thanks for sharing your insights. I agree with them.
When I think about 1.7% of the population and the current nature of the propaganda to get the majority to agree, to not only endorse same sex marriage, but also to write off the Bible as silly (constant references to Leviticus out of context), it shows me how strong and real the GLBT agenda has become in our generation.
I recommend Dr. Michael L. Brown’s book “A Queer Thing Happened to America” where he outlines the changes that have crept upon the nation in detail and documents how bad the situation has really become. While the church has taken an “ignore it and it will go away” stance, the small but powerful group has infiltrated not only many churches, but also education, politics, and business.
Yes, we all are sinners in need of grace. That is why we need the message that Dr. Brown preaches of both “reach out” and “resist.”
Reach out to those with truth, love, and compassion and actively resist the agenda.
Those thoughts were very helpful to me. I think they should help people on both sides of the debate,or those who are not sure what to think
It’s not a matter of immoral people “infiltrating the church” or the majority being manipulated. If God exists, he gave people free will. While exercising that free will can ultimately result in eternal damnation, he did not physically restrict the rights of humans while on Earth. If even God does not take the liberty of denying people’s rights, why should we do it? To glorify God? If that’s the belief, it’s incredibly ironic that we would glorify a god who promotes free will by denying others free will. If one wishes to truly glorify God, he or she should allow everyone to have the same privileges and opportunities, while using their own free will to glorify the god they acknowledge.
Everything we do should bring glory to God and be in harmony with his will. So should you vote? And if so, then whom should you vote for? What issues are important to God? Which candidates embrace or reject the issues that bring glory or shame to God? We were given dominion over this world for a reason.
I appreciate what you have shared on this subject. I do not believe “gay marriages”, simply for this reason:
How do I know, the Bible tells me so! My favorite book: The Bible! Why? It’s completely God’s Words, and I won’t ever get too old to keep learning about HIM! Thank you!
You lost me when you insulted Cubs fans. Sheesh, kick us while we’re down why don’t you? Shoot that skeleton of a dead horse.
But seriously, if only the most outspoken of “Christians” in our country were as thoughtful and honest as you have been. While I agree with what you’ve written, I also agree with Michael J. Kimpan’s reply as I too view this issue from primarily a social justice perspective. I’d also be interested in your thoughts on that.
Geoff,
You have seriously missed the mark! I hope you have a very small following. … God has revealed to me that he is going to bring the judgment of nuclear war on our nation when homosexual marriage is the law of the land. I hope you “don’t care” about that either. You’ll be much better off if you “don’t care.”
I would seriously question your source of 1.7%. Most other references are higher than that. Not that it matters.
Sincerely,
Toby
Very nice Toby! Say hi to Fred Phelps on Sunday.
While I truly respect your views I feel compelled to bring a slightly different perspective. What I see is an attempt in the Homosexual community is for everyone to once and for all, legitimize their behavior. While I agree it should not be used as a political football I also agree with the law. Agreeing or not caring who is married simply cheapens God’s intent. It cheapens the word.
You say the 1.7 percent is not a concern. As a respected pastor, teacher, and a true man of God I know you understand the analogy of yeast and bread. If this is condoned by you with a “don’t care” vote it is giving legitimacy by default. While it may be upsetting sometimes we do have to take a stand.
To me the word marriage is precious. It is worth protecting and should not be simply not cared about. In this society we give great power to words or titles. In the entertainment world the title “Oscar Winner” carries a lot of weight. What if Anyone could win one simply by being an actor. This would reduce the title to the classification of “Participant”. Not the intent. If we begin to cheapen the word marriage that opens the door to all sorts of options.
Also we have to ask, if marriage in general is on the decline why is this so important? Why not just call it a civil union? Why? Not because of rights. Don’t believe the smoke and mirrors. They know the word has power and legitimacy. That is the end game, not rights. If they want to live in sin the rest of their lives that is between them and God. Just don’t call it marriage.
In closing love the forum. It is one of the many things I love about you and the church. We can openly discuss in love. Thank you.
Do you know what cheapens marriage Greg? Divorce, which 50% of ‘Christians’ are. You want to protect marriage, honor your commitment.
“Traditional marriage” was an exchange of property, that property being women, from her father to her husband. It had nothing to do with choice or love. The idea of love in a marriage is a relatively new idea. This use of the bible to oppress another group really irritates me, it’s tired and old. It was used to justify slavery, the oppression of women and now gay people. I think you’ve forgotten that Jesus had one message and his message was love. I could also tell you why gay marriage is an issue that affects more than 1.7% of the population but and I think MLK Jr. said it best; “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” Let’s face it, when this argument reaches the Supreme Court, opponents of gay marriage will have a hard time explaining how denying gay people the right to marry doesn’t violate the 14th amendment. If I were you, I’d start ironing my rainbow flag.
I love you Josephine
So do I.
Jesus spoke out about many things during his life on earth. Do you know what he said about homosexuality? That’s right, absolutely nothing. He loved.
this is a wonderfully stated piece and my heart resonates with it. I am so thankful you have put into words what I could not. Thank you.
This is the best I have read on the subject and I could not agree more. You have a great way of articulating and I am going to print this article and use it from time to time to reconfirm my understanding of this issue. Thanks for taking the time to wrtie this.
Though I understand your frustration with the focus on same sex marriage when there are other things destroying marriage I think your thoughts as you expressed them here are somewhat short sighted. Here are my reasons why:
-though only about 1.7% of people are gay many more are impacted by this issue, perhaps our entire culture.
-Not everyone who takes a side and thinks this is an important issue is an extremist. Unless you define and extremist as someone who is vocal about their opinions.
-It sounds like you are suggesting that everyone who “pontificates” on this issue doesn’t know what they are talking about. I’m not sure that is true.
-Loving God and others often means speaking truth “Love…rejoices in truth.” (1 Cor. 13)
All of that said, I agree with the tenants which guide you as you seek to understand this issue.
Well said. I think you hit the mark. I hope people would consider reflecting on some important issues. Let us not take the easy road. Let’s do our job, study and know the issues thoroughly. In doing so we educate ourselves.
Well said. You hit the mark.
I’ve read these posts a can’t help but think that some miss the point Geoff was trying to convey. He was giving his thoughts, using his understanding of biblical principals. We are to Love (God and the neighbor; Jesus was asked about greatest commandment in Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 Jesus said to him,“‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
He doesn’t talk about marriage because it couldn’t be any clearer. Never in all of God’s word does He write it is between anything other than one man and one women. Divorce was questioned (Mark 50% Christians get divorced because they don’t follow God’s direction) in Matthew 19:3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?” 4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” 8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.” Very simple we as husbands are to self sacrifically love our wives. If we did this the divorce rate would plummet. If we couple that by glorifying God in all we do divorce would never happen. Look whether you agree or disagree do it in love, not with hate. God also speaks to those who hate. Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you” Goodnight and God Bless
I appreciate all you have to say in your writings. I believe that this shouldn’t be a focal point of the election, however I can understand the concern of both sides. Truth must always carry with it grace and mercy. I personally don’t care for the use of percentages to accent any point given. It cheapens the validity of gospel. Whether a group of people is towards the lesser of the scale, it makes no difference to me. God sees the heart of us all, after all that is what He cares about most. He cares about those who are broken, so that would include us all, no exceptions. If we would care more about loving others as Christ loved the church, we wouldn’t be threatened at all by some other veiw point. Speak the truth in love, that’s what I see coming across in the blog. Most of all love others, without giving up on them, tossing some out like yesterdays garbage. We need to communicate the Hope that we have within us, by the way we live out our lives towards others. Jesus, a friend of sinners, He is my mentor and hero, and Lord.
Curious to ask you folks what you think about decency and fairness to tax-paying citizens.
http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/tax-day-reminds-us-were-second-class-citizens
Today’s fact of the day: An average retired same-sex couple will be denied more than $8,000 a year in Social Security survivor benefits upon the death of the higher-earning spouse after retirement. Yes you read that right, $8,000 dollars a year.